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Official 'COOL ITEM ON EBAY!' thread...
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blanka
Adventure Vision


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if they want to ship, they often want to ship Priority only. The fun about USPS is that they can ship a boxed game for 15$ with First Class surface, and it shows up equally fast and reliable as Priority in the EU (roughly 4 working days). For Europeans, that is a steal! Its cheaper than most countries here charge for EU destinations of the same box. I pay 12 for a package this size to EU countries, but Italians sometimes pay up to 40 for that!

Anyway, it is time for Ebay to die. Etsy is going to kill it pretty soon. For now, Etsy is mostly chicks business, but I bought some handhelds there already. They do everything right Ebay stinks at. Just don't hope Ebay is going to offer them 1 billion to take them over....
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Rik
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vcoleiro1 wrote:
This happens time and time again, obviously when something is advertised here it's going to get the communities attention. It's a no brainer , advertising raises the prices, thats what it's for.


Yeah, but just remember, usually advertising helps better judge it's true value. If only 3 people know about the sale, then their bids determine the 'value'. If the entire collecting community knows about it, you will get a better picture of what it's true value is when everyone is allowed a fair chance at bidding on it. (Which is generally 2 notches below the high bid, unless the difference isn't very large.)

So the statement should be the other way: It's easy to get a low-ball price when no one knows about it. Not that advertising raises the price...

Panic Button wrote:
As for the outcome of the auction, I would have been happy buying at this price! I know tanatron paid a small fortune for his, and I've seen a BIN boxed version of the game on a Japanese auction site with a price of $500. It's also a pretty cool looking game with the joystick and 3D star wars trench effect. The gameplay and graphics are OK, nothing mindblowing...


I paid about $300 for mine, brand new in box (with a very nice box). So even $500 now for a mint one isn't unreasonable (though probably the high end end of it's value). Of course, if someone has one forsale at $500 for a long time, and it doesn't sell, that pretty much proves the price is too high. Rolling Eyes

And if you have trouble getting things that sellers will only ship to the US, let me know, I can help with that. I can either bid for you, or if the sellers allows it, you can bid and have them ship it to me and I'll forward it on.

You just have to agree to help out if the reverse situation arises! Cool
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Rik
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blanka wrote:
And if they want to ship, they often want to ship Priority only. The fun about USPS is that they can ship a boxed game for 15$ with First Class surface, and it shows up equally fast and reliable as Priority in the EU (roughly 4 working days). For Europeans, that is a steal! Its cheaper than most countries here charge for EU destinations of the same box. I pay 12 for a package this size to EU countries, but Italians sometimes pay up to 40 for that!


Actually, surface mail is no longer an option coming out of the US. Priority International is our _ONLY_ option (or the even more expensive Priority Express). USPS doesn't do the First Class Surface or anything comparable to 'small packets' anymore. I don't think it's possible to send a 1-pound box overseas for less than $30 or more...

blanka wrote:
Anyway, it is time for Ebay to die. Etsy is going to kill it pretty soon. For now, Etsy is mostly chicks business, but I bought some handhelds there already. They do everything right Ebay stinks at. Just don't hope Ebay is going to offer them 1 billion to take them over....


Game Gavel is trying to compete, at least on the gaming side:
http://www.gamegavel.com/

And it's _much_ cheaper than selling on eBay. I think you can even do a cheap monthly rate and sell all you want with no additional charges... Been a while since I looked into the pricing.

Advertise your games here, on other gaming forums and GameSniped.com if it's rare enough, and you will still get eBay-level prices for it. Cool

For something to take over eBay, it has to be _well_ known, and be a proper auction format. I've never heard of Etsy, but looking at it, it doesn't appear to be an auction site? That's something I'd like to see come back into reality. A true auction site. Auctions don't end until people are done bidding, and 'buy-it-now' is not an option. Any communication with the seller is automatically posted for all to see (that avoids the scumbags trying to rip-off sellers with low-ball offers) and it's impossible to end an auction early anyway. Once you list an auction, the auction goes until it ends... Something that's fair for everyone.

Japan has that for the most part (Yahoo), that's why eBay could never get a foot hold there. I wish we had something better here. eBay has just become an online store... Just go to any category (or search) and look at how many items are listed. Then click the link that says 'Auctions only' and see how many are there. Right now vintage games goes from 1900 to 500. The Game category overall goes from 415,000 to 60,000. What is that, like only 14% of all the listings are auctions? And of those 60,000, nearly half are starting above $10, so they are basically starting at a 'reserve' price. eBay is no longer an auction site, it's just an online store of overpriced item with a few people listing auctions.
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Panic Button
Entex Crazy Climber


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with gamegavel is that it doesn't have many visitors or items for sale, unless you are 'in the know' about it by being a collector. I think most of my collection is from regular folks clearing out their lofts, rather than other collectors selling their games, and regular folks are going to sell through ebay. Ebay also has the valuable feature of Saved Searches, not something I believe gamegavel offers. Yes there is a lot of overpriced rubbish on ebay, but you can still pick up bargains. The problem is in sifting through all the junk to find the gems!

I guess the other reason I posted about the Space Hurricane on here was to flush out what the true market value for the game was, by advertising it to a ravenous pack of handheld collectors Mr. Green
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vcoleiro1
Tiger Jawbreaker


Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think were just going to have to agree to disagree on advertising raising prices Rik. To me it definately raises prices for a listing above what you would normally get. ie if 20 people in the world want a game and the listing is advertised to them all, it's going to get a higher price than an average listing getting an average amount of people who spot it. The purpose of Advertising is to get more money than you would normally get.
IMHO, true value of an item is what it would normally get in a normal auction , not one thats advertised to everyone. If you said that then you are saying my Grandstand light games is worth more than $280(as per the advertised auction) even though I got it for $60 in a normal auction. I'd be the first to say that it's not worth $280.

As for your offer RIK for accepting US orders and reshipping them to OS, thanks very much for this generous offer, I may take you up on it and the reverse of course also.

As others have pointed out it seems US sellers are notorious for only selling within the US on a large part. There excuses range from cant be bothered shipping OS to I have had parcels dissappear to your country. It's super annoying. It's even more annoying when you get a seller like for the Space Hurricane who says email me with questions in his listing only to find out you cant email him because he has blocked it. Not only that but since 9/11 it's real hard to ship to the US from Australia, Auspost hit you with a $10 additional US security clearance charge over and above the shipping cost, so if anyone had the right to complain it should be OS vendors in shipping to the US.

Panic Button, that seems a good tip about setting up another account , I might actually do that. Thanks

As for Etsy , I have heard of it, it actually is bigger than you think. But it's more geared towards arts and crafts in my opinion . My wife uses it all the time. She has often said to me to sell my mini arcade machines on it.
I don't know if Etsy is the one that will succeed but another site backed by some heavies will eventually take it on in the future I reckon. Just like Facebook took on Myspace when Myspace was huge. Ebay's/Paypal's selling prices might be it's downfall which allows another player to come into the market.
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GameWatchGuy
Bandai FL Burgertime


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.
I shipped an item to Germany this week.
I figured ok, flat rate priority box no prob, only $16.95. No insurance, registered or nothing..ok
I drove to 2 post offices looking for the flat rate boxes and both said they were out of em. Spent about an hour or so on the road (I live in a small town)
I ended up paying 30 bucks for a small 5 oz box instead of the 16, just because they were out of the boxes....argh. This was just shipping, no insurance, registered or nothing.
I ship overseas, no prob, but if it's a rare item of course the buyer has to understand it's gonna cost because the seller wants to protect themselves a little.
I've ship about 5,000 plus packages a year, many overseas. Chance of loss shipping domestically (inside the USA) is almost null. You might lose 1 in 1000 if that, pretty safe. Of course shipping overseas is not as. I have lost packages and it is always the seller that is expected to pay for the mistake of the middle man, ie shipping service. Kinda sad actually, I've never had a single customer say they'll split the loss with me.
Even customers who I re-ship an item because it was extremely late, never mention that they did in fact eventually receive the first item.

Enough ranting on my part, I just figured I'd throw a few cents in...lol

~John
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Rik
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panic Button wrote:
The problem with gamegavel is that it doesn't have many visitors or items for sale, unless you are 'in the know' about it by being a collector. I think most of my collection is from regular folks clearing out their lofts, rather than other collectors selling their games, and regular folks are going to sell through ebay.


Yeah, that's a problem with any website trying to compete with eBay... eBay has a built-in base in the millions... How do you get that many people looking at an alternative? Short of shutting eBay down, it's not likely to happen...

GameGavel is good for sellers that know the market. You can post something there forsale, go to all the gaming forums and advertise it, and it will probably do well. Finding bargins there may not happen since you'd have to be a gamer to even know the site exists, and then you probably know the value of what you have. Smile

Panic Button wrote:
I guess the other reason I posted about the Space Hurricane on here was to flush out what the true market value for the game was, by advertising it to a ravenous pack of handheld collectors Mr. Green


Well, if I didn't already have it, there would have been a $300 placed on it... Smile Not sure what the winner's high bid was, but it's still worth that much to me...

vcoleiro1 wrote:
I think were just going to have to agree to disagree on advertising raising prices Rik. To me it definately raises prices for a listing above what you would normally get. ie if 20 people in the world want a game and the listing is advertised to them all, it's going to get a higher price than an average listing getting an average amount of people who spot it. The purpose of Advertising is to get more money than you would normally get.


You missed a key point of the price valuation I mentioned: 2nd highest bidder determines the fair value. Look at the Tiger Pyramid game that recently sold for 300 Euro. Look at the bid history:
308 Euro
307 Euro
52
47
41
etc.
Two people fought it out to get the game, _they_ were willing to pay 300+ euro for it because they 'had to have it'. So you remove their bids, that leaves you with the true value of the game:
~50 Euro

If another one sold, and bids were _exactly_ the same minus the winner of this auction, the game would sell for 53 Euros. When there's a huge jump between all bids and the winner/under bidder, you look below their bids to see the value. That's how you try to remove the weird anomalies in the price ranges...

Now, if 10 people were willing to pay 300 Euro for that game, then that game has a value of 300 Euro as long as it's rare. If someone suddenly find 12 of them, and sells 10 for 300 Euro to those collectors, and can't get more than 50 for the last two, the game is suddenly only worth 50 (that whole supply-and-demand thing). Now, 5 years later there's suddenly 10 more people with money to burn that want it, and it's value goes up again... For rare, uncommon, unusual or just not-to-well-known games, their whole existence can be ups and downs in value like this. For games that are well-known throughout the whole community (like Adventure Vision for example), the value will be fairly stable, and likely slowly increase over time if there's any rarity to the game... There's a whole lot more to this than just what it sold for on eBay the last time you saw it... Cool

But you have to have people _that know the product_ bidding on it to get it's true value (or at least, it's value as a collectible). Think about it, how much would your mom pay for a mint, boxed Adventure Vision? If placed in auction, and only your mom and you bid on it, how high do you think it would go? Do you honestly think that's a fair estimate of it's value? (This is assuming your mom doesn't know or care about games at all, and would likely only bid maybe $10, thus you get it for $11. Smile )

Now, tell the gaming community at large about it, and it will sell for a MUCH larger amount (mom doesn't stand a chance!). Then study the bid history. If it sells for $1000, and the bid history is only increments of $10 by different people, then that's the true collector value of the game (more or less). If it sells for $10,000, but the bid history is 10,000, 9990, then 1000, 990, 980, etc. Then the true value is still $1000. Someone just wanted it really bad, and didn't care about cost. This scenario can be seen in any collectibles market...

Advertising will NEVER increase the _value_ of a game over it's true value (unless it's somehow making people aware of the existence of something they never knew existed, which rarely happens in the handheld game field... I love when people on eBay site a game not being listed on my site as proof that's so rare no one has ever heard of it! Hey, I'm just one guy here, not the whole internet! Cool ). It might cause an increase in _that one_ sale if two people have to have it, or if it reaches the ears of someone that doesn't really have a history buying those items but is suddenly interested in it (but that's why you look at, and study, the bid history). But a poorly advertised listing (or one with something mis-spelled, etc) is NEVER an indication of the value of the game. Sure, it's an indication of a great deal someone might be able to get, but not the actual value of the item.

vcoleiro1 wrote:
IMHO, true value of an item is what it would normally get in a normal auction , not one thats advertised to everyone. If you said that then you are saying my Grandstand light games is worth more than $280(as per the advertised auction) even though I got it for $60 in a normal auction. I'd be the first to say that it's not worth $280.


I agree about the true value being indicated by what it normally gets in a normal auction. NORMAL auction, i.e., one that the target audience is fully aware of. And again, based on a study of the bid history. What were the two next lowest bids on the $280 Light Games? That's what you need to determine the value, not just the winning bid. And never consider buy-it-now sales (even with 'best offers'), or any reserve auction unless the item sells for a significant amount over the reserve (i.e., the reserve had no affect on the sale price). Those types of sales have no indication of a true value of a collectible. They might, by chance, be in the ball-park, but there's no way to even attempt to verify it unless you look at the history of other sales, and if you have that info you don't need the BIN or reserve sale anyway.

(And, for what it's worth, Light Games in particular seems to be all over the place. I've seen it sell in the hundreds, sold one myself for $10... Sometimes it's also influenced by incorrect knowledge. Someone thinks it's a really rare item, and bids crazy for it... Later people realize it's quite common, and it's not really worth much... I think Light Games is a perfect example. I see it forsale all the time, so I don't really consider it worth a lot... But there seems to be an occasional attitude of 'Wow, that's really rare!' Smile )
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Rik
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GameWatchGuy wrote:
Hi.
I shipped an item to Germany this week.
I figured ok, flat rate priority box no prob, only $16.95. No insurance, registered or nothing..ok
I drove to 2 post offices looking for the flat rate boxes and both said they were out of em. Spent about an hour or so on the road (I live in a small town)
I ended up paying 30 bucks for a small 5 oz box instead of the 16, just because they were out of the boxes....argh. This was just shipping, no insurance, registered or nothing.
I ship overseas, no prob, but if it's a rare item of course the buyer has to understand it's gonna cost because the seller wants to protect themselves a little.
I've ship about 5,000 plus packages a year, many overseas. Chance of loss shipping domestically (inside the USA) is almost null. You might lose 1 in 1000 if that, pretty safe. Of course shipping overseas is not as. I have lost packages and it is always the seller that is expected to pay for the mistake of the middle man, ie shipping service. Kinda sad actually, I've never had a single customer say they'll split the loss with me.
Even customers who I re-ship an item because it was extremely late, never mention that they did in fact eventually receive the first item.

Enough ranting on my part, I just figured I'd throw a few cents in...lol

~John


Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been selling on eBay for over 10 years, willing to ship anywhere on the planet for the most part. can't even remember ever loosing a package (but I don't ship 5000 a year either... Cool )

I forgot they have the flat-rate boxes for overseas, but I didn't think any of them were that cheap. I thought about $27-30 was the cheapest one (of course, this may vary by country too...)

Overseas packages from the US now all have tracking numbers on them (the barcode on the customs form is a trackable number), and have some insurance built-in (usually about $60-70). For overseas, I always insure for the value of the item if more than the included insurance. Don't ever agree to post less than the true value of the item on the customs form. First off, it's illegal. People shouldn't be asking you to break the law to save a few bucks. Secondly, no matter what you insure it for, the post office will only give you a refund up to the declared value on the package.

If you declare it for $10, and insure it for a $1000, and it gets lost, you get $10.

Also, when determining the value for customs, they will look at BOTH the declared and the insured value, and use the higher of the two... Cool

I had one guy that kept trying to claim that a package I sent was never received. I contacted the post office for tracking information, they told me the address it was delivered to (with date and time), and the name of the person that accepted the package. It was the guy's mom's last name I think, but he insisted he never got the package. PayPal had all the proof they needed, but he never actually tried to file a claim... Just gave me negative feedback. Makes me wonder if his mom really did just steal it...
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vcoleiro1
Tiger Jawbreaker


Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me put it this way, An advertised listing is going to get the maximum price possible for an item. Does that represent true value, no, it represents the maximum price. You could say that a non advertised normal listing wont get top price, but that's the point, it gets a standard price. An advertised listing gets bids from people who may not even have been after the item (like yourself , as you said, you were tempted to bid even though you wern't looking for one). People who had never even heard of the item will bid on it - For this reason it's not fair to say advertised listings generates fair value results.

I'm not sure of this method of taking the third bid or so in an auction, that sounds fairer, maybe I'll try it out. I see one problem with the method though, I have left my bid to the last day as a lot people Im sure have done also. Lets say I want to bid to $200, I log on and see bids go to $60 and then 2 bidders battled it out to now have the price at $300. I don;t bid because it's over my $200 dollar limit already, this has happened many times, in your calculations the item would be worth $60 because you don't see the bids that people were willing to pay but never made as the auction went rapidly above there limit.

I think the fairest way to judge value is to average the selling price on all auctions over the last 18 months . That's a truer method. If you can afford to pay for it (which I don't) you can use worthpoint - but I have never used so can't really recommend it - only heard that it's ok - perhaps someone here has used it and can talk more about it.

There's a well known collector who I will not name, who I have constantly seen slyly advertising his goods on ebay . He does it by posting about the game on a retro site forum and then just mentioning that hey theres one on ebay at the moment by the way. He has done this many times. Every time the auction has gotten way over NORMAL prices. One of them was the Light Games. You could argue , as you have done and say that this is the true value of the item - but it isn't , its an overly MAXIMUM inflated price brought on by someone advertising it to the whole community and then talking it up. I think you can guess the person Im referring to (lets say he lives a South American Country) - I think his listings are a great example of why advertised listings cant be be factored at all in true value calculations.

As for the Light Games, I have done a world wide ebay search for ages before one popped up, so it is rare for sure. Worth $280 - probably not.
I know there is one on retrogames at the moment for $200 it's loose and damaged.


Last edited by vcoleiro1 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:17 am; edited 5 times in total
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blanka
Adventure Vision


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really curious how the shipping product is named I get tens of US packages with. I never pay more than 15-18$ for a table top, and they are here in 4 working days, and it is not in a special box (just a random box with a USPS sticker pasted on it). Smaller stuff in envelopes, even pretty thick ones that are delivered as package as they are too thick for our post boxes, are often only 7-8$. Only thing I know is it has "first class" on it, not "priority".

Oh and rick, seems you like auctions: I hate them, give me buy-it-now any time. For the buyer it is better!
Just won an FL Burgertime boxed deadstock one on yahoo.jp, but luckely it had a nice high starting price, so it was more like buy it now, and still half price of the Ebay ones.
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vcoleiro1
Tiger Jawbreaker


Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blanka wrote:
I am really curious how the shipping product is named I get tens of US packages with. I never pay more than 15-18$ for a table top, and they are here in 4 working days, and it is not in a special box (just a random box with a USPS sticker pasted on it). Smaller stuff in envelopes, even pretty thick ones that are delivered as package as they are too thick for our post boxes, are often only 7-8$. Only thing I know is it has "first class" on it, not "priority".

Oh and rick, seems you like auctions: I hate them, give me buy-it-now any time. For the buyer it is better!
Just won an FL Burgertime boxed deadstock one on yahoo.jp, but luckely it had a nice high starting price, so it was more like buy it now, and still half price of the Ebay ones.


Can I ask you Blanka how you go about buying stuff on Yahoo Auctions Japan. Can you read Japanese or do you use a Japanese agent to buy or something?
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Rik
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vcoleiro1 wrote:
Let me put it this way, An advertised listing is going to get the maximum price possible for an item. Does that represent true value, no, it represents the maximum price. You could say that a non advertised normal listing wont get top price, but that's the point, it gets a standard price. An advertised listing gets bids from people who may not even have been after the item (like yourself , as you said, you were tempted to bid even though you wern't looking for one).

I think the fairest way to judge value is to average the selling price on all auctions over the last 18 months . That's a truer method. If you can afford to pay for it (which I don't) you can use worthpoint - but I have never used so can't really recommend it - only heard that it's ok - perhaps someone here has used it and can talk more about it.


Right, which is why, to some degree, you have to take into account the lower bids. The exact a price an item sells for is almost never a good judge of it's value for two reasons: If a similar item was resold, and the same people bid on it, it's likely to sell for less, every time. I've seen this happen MANY times when a rare game suddenly becomes available, and then it's later obvious that the seller found a case or two of them in a warehouse. They never get the same price twice. Or, it will create a sort 'frenzy' when there's a second item, and that jacks the price up even higher.

In the end, it's all guess work. Yes, you are right about the possibility of other bidders not bidding a value in the middle because they simply couldn't bid. There's just no way to tell, you can't prove it one way or the other.

But a non-advertised auction won't get a 'standard price', it will get a deflated price, the exact opposite of what you state happens with a heavily advertised auction. Technically, NEITHER of them are likely to be close to the value. Look at the Adventure Vision example I gave before. If no one that _really_ wants it knows about the auction, then it's going to get the 'garage sale' value. To the general public, this stuff isn't worth that much. So what do you base the value on? What it's worth to collectors, or to the price tag put on it by someone at a garage sale? Maybe a good way is to just take an average of the sell-price of an advertised (inflated) auction, and 'non-advertised' (deflated) auction... Settle in the middle somewhere. That has to be closer to a fair value than either of the extremes...

Real world example:
I have two loose Adventure Vision consoles. One I bought on eBay, at auction, bidding against other collectors in a well advertised auction, for about $800. One I found at a flea market for $10, seller was pleased to make the sale. So what's the true value of the game? I could sell it to anyone on this forum for $10. I could probably sell it to a couple of people for $800. Even the average of $400 would be a good deal to most people here... Cool Assume $800 is high-end, and $10 the garage sale price from mom that doesn't know what it's worth to collectors... I'd still put a fair value for a loose AV (with no carts) at no less than $600...

Now, ultimately, your example of judging the prices over a period of time is definitely valid, and is the best way to do it. Whether the auctions are 'well advertised' or sneak under the radar, it won't matter if you have 10-20+ to choose from. But we are mostly talking about games that only pop up once or twice a year at the most, sometimes much less... There's 5 or 6 of us (maybe more now) that will spend damn near anything to get a rare game we need for our collection (I almost dread the day a boxed Star Castle tabletop shows up on eBay... Hell, even a loose one. THEN we will see how deep some of our collector's pockets go... Cool ), So until those collector's aren't bidding against one another, a truly fair value will likely never be known.

I think another factor in a game's value is simply how many exist (at least, that we know of), as well as desirability. When a Tiger Jawbreaker handheld appeared for the first time on eBay in 2003 (that I had ever seen), I managed to get it for a steal... (not really sure how that one went unnoticed...) Afterward, I had people practically begging me to sell it for FAR more than I paid for it (think $500+) Over the years, others have come up forsale, and at first they were getting close to that $500 mark even on eBay. The last one I have record of sold in 2008 for $200. The people that were offering me all that money now have their own copies... So I don't think it's worth that much anymore, $150-200 is probably a closer value since several have appeared. That could be an example that proves your over-inflated price theory, but not just because it was heavily advertised, but just because we _know_ it's rare, and many of us want it (and actively search for it on eBay).

I think I know of one complete, boxed Tiger Galaxx that has sold, for nearly $1000. If another pops up on eBay, it's likely to still sell for about that much (unless more are out there that I haven't paid attention to). Again, there's a few people that will spend that kind of money with no problem, and they really want the game. After they are all satisfied, then we'd see what a more reasonable value would be...

Technically, none of these games _should_ be worth that much since they were made and sold... There just _has_ to be at least hundreds (probably thousands) of them out there _somewhere_! But when their numbers are assumed to be in the single digits (and of an interest to collectors), you really can't easily place a value on it... Cool It really is just luck of the draw, and who knows about the auction listing. In these cases, advertising can make all the difference... But it's hard to say it's a fair representation of it's value on the assumption that there simply has to be more of them out there... All it takes is one warehouse find to kill the value of most games. (the Adventure Vision survived it, but that's the only one I know of that held it's value after several were found in a warehouse and eBay'd... Only 8, but that's still a significant number for most games... I think the AV has a much broader appeal than just a 'handheld game')

(Man, I don't think I've talked about something on this forum this much in a long time! And I think we both are making fair arguments... Maybe we should just write a book on the topic. Laughing )
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Rik
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blanka wrote:
I am really curious how the shipping product is named I get tens of US packages with. I never pay more than 15-18$ for a table top, and they are here in 4 working days, and it is not in a special box (just a random box with a USPS sticker pasted on it). Smaller stuff in envelopes, even pretty thick ones that are delivered as package as they are too thick for our post boxes, are often only 7-8$. Only thing I know is it has "first class" on it, not "priority".


I'll prod the post office the next time I'm there.. Sometimes certain countries have special arrangements with the post office to get reduced rates in general... No idea how that works. I think there's a First Class option for a very small limited requirement (under a pound, box smaller than 10 inches or something like that)... That can make a difference.

But, if you are getting it in 4 days, it's definitely air mail of some kind. Surface mail would take 2-4 weeks, and used to be really cheap, probably half of what you quoted. It used to be easy to ship anything at fairly cheap rates, but a lot of that has gone away...

blanka wrote:
Oh and rick, seems you like auctions: I hate them, give me buy-it-now any time. For the buyer it is better!
Just won an FL Burgertime boxed deadstock one on yahoo.jp, but luckely it had a nice high starting price, so it was more like buy it now, and still half price of the Ebay ones.


Oh, I love BINs if the price is fair (or if it's a good deal... Laughing ), but when you look at eBay, a majority of the BIN auction are FAR over priced... That's why I have a problem with them... People will list something BIN for years and never change the price. In one of my other hobbies, I see things listed for nearly twice what I know the person bought it for just a few months ago at public auction... And they list the items indefinitely. They will NEVER sell, and I have to scroll through them every damn time I look at the category... I don't even understand why they do it. One seller I've seen doing this for years has never sold any of the items he has listed like this. NEVER! But he's been listing the same items since 2006... WTF?

What'd you get the Burgertime for? I've gotten them for $100-180 in the past... And they always seem to be new store stock... Japan has so much of that!

vcoleiro1 wrote:
Can I ask you Blanka how you go about buying stuff on Yahoo Auctions Japan. Can you read Japanese or do you use a Japanese agent to buy or something?


Can't speak for Blanka, but I created an account on Yahoo.jp years ago just using babelfish to get through the registration process. There's an indicator on the auction listing of whether the seller will ship overseas (usually set to 'no'). I learned enough Japanese (through Babelfish and forum help) to say things like 'Will you ship to America? I will pay shipping cost and send cash.' (At the time, local bank transfer was about the only digital way to send money, so I'd go to travel agencies and buy Japanese Yen cash and express mail it to the winners. Sounds scary, but never 'lost' a payment.) I'd get about a 50% yes rate. The only real issue then became explaining to them my address... Cool

There's seems to be a lot less sellers on YJP willing to ship overseas than there used to be... They'd frequently even have Japanese and English descriptions because they knew we were looking... I almost never see that anymore...

But these days, if you don't know Japanese, best to just use an agent. If you shop around for a good one, and with the prices games usually sell for in Japan, you still come out ahead.
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vcoleiro1
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you on there not being an easy way to determine value for an item. There are pro's and con's to any system you employ.

As far as non advertised auctions, you're right, there is a small chance some people interested in an item may miss it. However, if you're a collector after an item you will be regularly searching for it. For eg, I don't think I have missed any auction for items in my hit list. So to say these non advertised auctions get just mom and dad bidders or a small number of people who are interested in them sits real heavy with me. Thats a bit of an insult to the spotting skills of us collectors. Generally, collectors interested in an item will spot it.

On the other hand lets talk about advertised auctions. Now at this point I should declare something. I worked for Ford for 7 years in Integrated marketing with a heavy slant towards advertising via electronic means (web etc). Let me say this, Advertising isn't about bringing people to the plate who are interested in an item. It's about generating interest where there was none. In this context it's about getting people interested in a handheld and getting them to bid. 95% of the items in my hit list of handhelds I want, are items I read posts about. 95% - think about it.
I mentioned before about the Light Games unit, guess what, it was the post about the auction that went for $280 that got got me aware and interested in it . I probably would have bid on that auction had of I seen the post earlier. Advertising is much more powerfull than you give it credit for. It will make you go out and buy twinkies when you hated them last time you tried them. That's why I say it over inflates prices. Not because it pulls in people that are already interested, but because it pulls people in who wern't. Advertising is absolutely about generating an inflated price for an item for the reasons I have just mentioned.

In the end judging which of the above is fairer comes down to the lesser of the 2 evils, to me it's the non advertised listing .


(Same here, I haven't had a long discussion on any forum for ages, I guess it was due Wink. )
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Rik
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vcoleiro1 wrote:
As far as non advertised auctions, you're right, there is a small chance some people interested in an item may miss it. However, if you're a collector after an item you will be regularly searching for it. For eg, I don't think I have missed any auction for items in my hit list. So to say these non advertised auctions get just mom and dad bidders or a small number of people who are interested in them sits real heavy with me. Thats a bit of an insult to the spotting skills of us collectors. Generally, collectors interested in an item will spot it.


Maybe I mis-understood what you meant about 'advertised'. When I say an 'advertised' auction, I mean one that a good sampling of the collectors know about. Either by finding themselves by eBay searches, or by mention on this site, GameSniped, or any of the other gaming forums.

By 'not advertised', I mean auctions that, for whatever reason, went largely unnoticed by _most_ of us. Either a listing that was only posted in one country and no one really noticed, or one that has a mis-spelling in it that no one caught, or one that says something like 'cool game forsale' when that cool game is some ridiculously rare thing... And that wasn't mentioned on any of the aforementioned sites/forums.

That's what I mean by 'advertised': noticed by collectors at large that know and understand the rarity of the item.

I'm not talking about something Gizmodo posted on their front page saying 'Damn, look at this! I haven't seen these in years, it must be worth $1000s now because it's so rare!'. Yeah, that will ridiculously over-inflate the value of a bag of sand... And even on a forum, if there's a bunch of people saying 'wow, I really want that now that I've seen it' can have the same affect...

When I was saying 'advertising', I meant simply making it known to the people that already are interested, not the kind that tries to convince everyone they need to have it... Cool You won't have to convince many members here that they need a handheld game... If they don't have it, and it's on their radar, they already want it. Those are the people that will more closely determine the value of a game (taking into consideration the few that might pay 'anything' to get something they really need for their collection.)

While the right kind of advertising can have a similar affect on a collectible, publicity and advertising for a rare collectible to advertising used for corporate retail sales are quite different, as the overall goals are completely different. One just wants to raise the price of a single item that's forsale, while the other is trying to create mass demand and brand loyalty. That almost requires a sort of brain-washing to convince many people that an item is something to be desired, and is hopefully at a price they can afford. Yeah, it can work on the single sale too (like the Gizmodo example), but it's not nearly as common an occurrence in the collectible fields. Although, that might be more due to a lack of know-how on the part of the seller rather than the technique not being able to work... Cool Ford has teams of experts that do nothing but that... Most of 'us' don't have those resources...
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